Curse

faraaz · Mar 05, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Rayway con: Not every enemy in the game is Undead, and the ones that are, arent that hard to dispose of with Discordway.

BrettM · Mar 05, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

I haven't done much comparison since I've only started trying Discordway recently. However, I have been doing a daily Arborstone vq with H&H using my smiting monk char, two smiting monk heroes, a Jagged Bones MB hero, and henchies to fill out. It's smooth and takes about 1:10 to do, though it can be a bit rough for the first group of wardens since the minions aren't up yet and those hammers can be devastating. But I do the run with no party wipes and no cons.

After getting my discord team set up using my ele char as caller, I did a couple of vanquishes in the Luxon areas to get used to the build. Then I decided to do Arborstone as a comparison, running a typical Discordway setup plus henchies. It took four minutes less, but my smite team has also done it that fast on occasion. The monk boss can be a bit troublesome for this team, but everything else is smooth. Discord gets the first minions up faster, since the first warden goes down in just a few seconds. Again, no party wipes and no cons.

With the discord team, individual foes drop much faster, but the groups have to be taken out one foe at a time. With the IC team, individuals go down more slowly, but the group as a whole dies in about the same amount of time because of the massive AoE. (Also, wardens, being plants, burn very nicely.)

Overall, it's pretty much a tossup for a place like Arborstone. Obviously the smiters are going to be a better choice for some areas, especially those heavy in undead, while the discord will have advantage in others, especially where foes are resistant to burning. But, in most areas I don't think there would be much difference. Both work better for me than Sabway.

AtomicMew · Mar 05, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

If you have a decent tank, rayway is stronger. I don't see how there can be any argument about it. Discordway is great in lots of places and probably faster, but higher level PvE... well, you're not going to do duncan HM with discord. It is possible with rayway.

Heck, if it werent for CoP, cryway would be RoJway.

Karate Jesus · Mar 05, 2009, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

If you have a decent tank, rayway is stronger. I don't see how there can be any argument about it. Discordway is great in lots of places and probably faster, but higher level PvE... well, you're not going to do duncan HM with discord. It is possible with rayway.

Heck, if it werent for CoP, cryway would be RoJway.

A lot of people use both now, tbh. RoJ+arcane echo+any mes hex+CoP=Good stuff

pkodyssey · Mar 10, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Discord can out damage Rayway every day of the week.

Discord is 10x faster than Rayway. One well placed interrupt puts you out of commission.

Discord can be played by any player class. Rayway needs solid tanking up-front.

Rayway is MARGINALLY quicker in heavy undead areas, but you still need a tank.

My old alliance members liked the animation over the kill rate, but they weren't the greatest of players either.

Andurros · Mar 11, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkodyssey

Discord can out damage Rayway every day of the week.

Discord is 10x faster than Rayway. One well placed interrupt puts you out of commission.

Discord can be played by any player class. Rayway needs solid tanking up-front.

Rayway is MARGINALLY quicker in heavy undead areas, but you still need a tank.

My old alliance members liked the animation over the kill rate, but they weren't the greatest of players either.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I would say that they both have their benefits and cons depending on what you are fighting and where. As a need for a solid tank, I am not so sure about that either. I have used RayWay many times without that solid tank and did just fine, except in a few areas in which a tank would have made it much easier.

I do agree with your former alliance that the animation is pretty cool. I also understand that alliances can be wrong on many things. I recently left one in which they only wanted to play with themselves and if you did get to play with them all you heard was how "elite" they were. It became especially annoying since we knew that they used bots.

Cherng Butter · Mar 11, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

One point you missed out on is that discordway relies on hexes and conditions. That means stuff like Shadow of Fear, Enfeebling Blood, Weaken Armor, Suffering etc etc...all of which adds additional pressure against the enemies, particularly in HM. Rayway brings none of that.

No bone minions in HM is kinda a suicide pact without uber defense like imbagons and cons.

So I thought of:

[build prof=W/any name="yourself" strength=12+1 sword=12+2][hundred blades][sun and moon slash][whirlwind attack]["save yourselves!"][air of superiority][flail][for great justice][enraging charge][/build]

[build prof=Mo/E smiting=12+1+1 divine=12+1][ray of judgment][reversal of damage][smite hex][smite condition][heaven's delight][smiter's boon][castigation signet][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

[build prof=Mo/E smiting=12+1+1 divine=9+1 protect=9+1][ray of judgment][Aegis][smite hex][smite condition][shield of absorption][Protective Spirit][castigation signet][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo smiting=12 soul=9+1 curses=9+1][ray of judgment][Mark of Pain][Barbs][Shadow of Fear][Enfeebling Blood][Weaken Armor][Signet of Lost Souls][Strength of Honor][/build] or maybe [Smite Condition]

The necro needs to be microed to open with RoJ, but we have debuffs now, which I agree are very valuable. Minions are nice, but it'd be easier to group baddies around 1 frontliner anyway, and you could add both henchmen monks for ultra survivability

if other frontliners/AoE elementalists are out of the picture, you don't have much option for henchmen anyway, like in Tyria.

AtomicMew · Mar 20, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkodyssey

Discord can out damage Rayway every day of the week.

Discord is 10x faster than Rayway. One well placed interrupt puts you out of commission.

Discord can be played by any player class. Rayway needs solid tanking up-front.

Rayway is MARGINALLY quicker in heavy undead areas, but you still need a tank.

My old alliance members liked the animation over the kill rate, but they weren't the greatest of players either.

Your assessment is wrong, mate. Please show me discordway completing Slaver's HM. Rayway can.

It's true, discordway is easier to use and can be used by more professions. It's also true that rayway needs a tank to be used to its full potential and is harder to use. However, that does not change the fact that rayway can do everything discordway can and more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

So I thought of:

[build prof=W/any name="yourself" strength=12+1 sword=12+2][hundred blades][sun and moon slash][whirlwind attack]["save yourselves!"][air of superiority][flail][for great justice][enraging charge][/build]

[build prof=Mo/E smiting=12+1+1 divine=12+1][ray of judgment][reversal of damage][smite hex][smite condition][heaven's delight][smiter's boon][castigation signet][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

[build prof=Mo/E smiting=12+1+1 divine=9+1 protect=9+1][ray of judgment][Aegis][smite hex][smite condition][shield of absorption][Protective Spirit][castigation signet][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo smiting=12 soul=9+1 curses=9+1][ray of judgment][Mark of Pain][Barbs][Shadow of Fear][Enfeebling Blood][Weaken Armor][Signet of Lost Souls][Strength of Honor][/build] or maybe [Smite Condition]

The necro needs to be microed to open with RoJ, but we have debuffs now, which I agree are very valuable. Minions are nice, but it'd be easier to group baddies around 1 frontliner anyway, and you could add both henchmen monks for ultra survivability

if other frontliners/AoE elementalists are out of the picture, you don't have much option for henchmen anyway, like in Tyria.

That looks real solid. But the N/Mo is a wasted slot IMO. I'd probably switch in a Mo/Rt with splinter weapon instead. Enfeebling blood can be put on one of the other smiters if you really wanted.

Daesu · Mar 20, 2009, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

It's true, discordway is easier to use and can be used by more professions. It's also true that rayway needs a tank to be used to its full potential and is harder to use.

I dont see what's so difficult to use about rayway and you wont need a tank if you have a snare. I frequently afk through it and let my heroes do the killing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkodyssey

Rayway is MARGINALLY quicker in heavy undead areas, but you still need a tank.

You are kidding right? RoJway is many times better than discordway in HM Shards. Try bringing your discord MM there and see how useless he would be.

A good RoJway can clear HM SoO with 0 deaths, because they kill so fast. Now try doing HM SoO with 0 deaths using your discord team with just 1 player and H/H.

faraaz · Mar 20, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

A good RoJway can clear HM SoO with 0 deaths, because they kill so fast. Now try doing HM SoO with 0 deaths using your discord team with just 1 player and H/H.

Maybe you're not as good as you think you are with discord team?

Daesu · Mar 20, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Maybe you're not as good as you think you are with discord team?

Feel free to prove me wrong then.

You can always post your uber screenshots and videos of your 1 player H/H discordway owning HM SoO without cons, with 0 deaths.

AtomicMew · Mar 20, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I dont see what's so difficult to use about rayway and you wont need a tank if you have a snare. I frequently afk through it and let my heroes do the killing

I'm interested in your snare variation rayway, that lets you afk SoO.

Xhizors · Mar 20, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

So I thought of:

[build prof=W/any name="yourself" strength=12+1 sword=12+2][hundred blades][sun and moon slash][whirlwind attack]["save yourselves!"][air of superiority][flail][for great justice][enraging charge][/build]

[build prof=Mo/E smiting=12+1+1 divine=12+1][ray of judgment][reversal of damage][smite hex][smite condition][heaven's delight][smiter's boon][castigation signet][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

[build prof=Mo/E smiting=12+1+1 divine=9+1 protect=9+1][ray of judgment][Aegis][smite hex][smite condition][shield of absorption][Protective Spirit][castigation signet][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo smiting=12 soul=9+1 curses=9+1][ray of judgment][Mark of Pain][Barbs][Shadow of Fear][Enfeebling Blood][Weaken Armor][Signet of Lost Souls][Strength of Honor][/build] or maybe [Smite Condition]

The necro needs to be microed to open with RoJ, but we have debuffs now, which I agree are very valuable. Minions are nice, but it'd be easier to group baddies around 1 frontliner anyway, and you could add both henchmen monks for ultra survivability

if other frontliners/AoE elementalists are out of the picture, you don't have much option for henchmen anyway, like in Tyria.

quite good but i dont like hexes and conditions on Rayway since i´ve played N/Mo and then changed to Mo/.

Daesu · Mar 21, 2009, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

I'm interested in your snare variation rayway, that lets you afk SoO.

I never afk in HM SoO, but in most general areas in HM, it is easy to get through it afk.

I need proper pulling and aggro management for HM SoO.

Invincible · Mar 21, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

the ray's automatically do a condition that stays on them for 15 seconds 3 seconds of burning each time they get hit by it get it by it for 5 seconds 5x3= 15 yada yada. Needless to say its aoe dmg with a single target spike= big groups drop really really fast.

I just want to point out that [[Ray of Judgment] doesnt do 15 seconds of burning, the seconds do not stack.
its 7 seconds of burning if all 5 ticks hit (note that the last 3 seconds of burning start ON the 5th second).

only saying if you use one guy with rayway and another with discord way, i would not rely on RoJ as a condition.

You didnt want this to be a thread about 'this build is better than that ...' so i wont say more, i just needed to correct you

as for rayway vs discordway, i chose discord becouse of the higher single-target dmg (not that i use any of them).

Daesu · Mar 21, 2009, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invincible

I just want to point out that [[Ray of Judgment] doesnt do 15 seconds of burning, the seconds do not stack.
its 7 seconds of burning if all 5 ticks hit (note that the last 3 seconds of burning start ON the 5th second).

only saying if you use one guy with rayway and another with discord way, i would not rely on RoJ as a condition.

You didnt want this to be a thread about 'this build is better than that ...' so i wont say more, i just needed to correct you

as for rayway vs discordway, i chose discord becouse of the higher single-target dmg (not that i use any of them).

He is right, it is only 7s of burning, not 15s. You can easily test this in Isle of the Nameless. If you want a supporting condition for discordway, [[enfeebling blood (pve)@5] at 5 to curse lasts longer than burning from RoJ at 12 to simiting.

I also find Discordway to be slightly better (but not the pvx meta pve version, which sucks for non-casters) mostly due to the faster recharge of discord and greater flexibility with necro soul reaping for energy management.